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22 Responses to “Judaism,Christianity or Islam by Sheikh Ahmed Deedat (2/12)”
For some reason my … For some reason my second comment is not posting here and I had some trouble getting my third up. You can see all four if you click on ’see all comments’. Sorry about the multiple postings.
@hchsbp1
4/4
“Why … @hchsbp1
4/4
“Why does Shari’a law obligate Muslims to protect the rights of non-Muslims.?” You told me that no country practices Shari’a then how do they practice jihad? Are they misinterpreting the Qur’an? Do they than think that you are by not agreeing to them? Perhaps than the best thing to say is that Shari’a law is very good but Muslims are not? The devshirme in the Ottoman Empire and the dhimmi of Yemen did not feel this protection, yet both are definitely run by Muslims.
3/4
You say that the objective of offensive jihad is to bring the nation under Shari’a. You also said that no nation today lives under Shari’a. Does that mean that the jihadists are misinterpreting the Qur’an? Do they think you are? You have to understand that for a dhimmi there is very little difference between being forced to live under Shari’a and forced to convert to Islam. Also the three options when meeting new nations are: convert, pay tax or die. Nothing there about Shari’a.
@hchsbp1
2/4
“with … @hchsbp1
2/4
“with regards to…this was carried out in blatant defiance of the teachings of Islam”
Whether Islam teaches it is OK to forcefully convert someone or not, Muslims have commonly forced people to convert. Even Karen Armstrong whom you listed earlier says that during the time of Muhammad there were forced converts. In fact, if you look at the sheer numbers of forced conversions in the past 1000 years its possible that you are a descendant of one. Also thanks but I already have Torah.
@hchsbp1
.1/4
Yes, … @hchsbp1
.1/4
Yes, I’m Jewish. So that would make us cousins not brother. I just want to add here that I am not anti-Muslim only anti-jihaddist the same as I am anti-Christian missionaries and not anti-Christian.
I’m not sure what you mean when you say that I need to “judge Muslims by Islam”. Does that mean that if a religion teaches peace but its people are not peaceful they should still be called peaceful? It is the people who make the religion by how they translate their books.
@WaysOfMan
FOUR
… @WaysOfMan
FOUR
Think about this; if Islam instructed Muslims to force people into accepting Islam why does Sharia’a Law obligate Muslims to protect the rights of non-Muslims living in their lands?
@WaysOfMan
THREE
… @WaysOfMan
THREE
As you can clearly see, forcing someone to convert is completely against the teachings of Islam. The objective of offensive Jihad is to only bring the nation under the Law’s of God. Not to force anyone to convert. This is because all man made laws are oppressive. Sharia’a law guarantees the rights of Muslims and non-Muslims.
I highly recommend that u study the Law’s of Sharia’a. Or if u have any questions regarding it, please feel free to ask.
@WaysOfMan
TWO
… @WaysOfMan
TWO
With regards to Jadid al Islam and the Orphan’s decree in Yemen, this was carried out in blatant defiance of the teachings of Islam.
“There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become clear from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in falsehood and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower” {2:256}
@WaysOfMan
ONE
… @WaysOfMan
ONE
Brother, I know ur not sticking up for Christianity. I could tell from ur responses that u are probably a Jew or an Israelite (I do not intend this to be said in a disrespectful manner)
There is not a single country in the world that abides by the Sharia’a Law nor do they represent Islam. U have to judge Muslims by Islam, not the other way around.
We have to go to the teachings of the Prophet (pbuh) and the rightly guided Caliphs.
@hchsbp1
How are … @hchsbp1
How are you explaining the Jedid al Islam and the Orphan’s decree?
The three courses of action when meeting new people:
“Invite them to (accept) Islam”
“If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya.”
“If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them.”
@hchsbp1
(Sorry … @hchsbp1
(Sorry couldn’t edit previous post so I had to add this here)
I am not trying to stick up for Christians. I think Christians are great at killing the disbelievers. All I am saying is that its not ONLY Christians who force conversions. There are documented cases throughout history of this as I mentioned earlier. Just as there is of the Christians. In this at least Islam is on par with Christians.
@WaysOfMan
THREE
… @WaysOfMan
THREE
Sharia’a Law is better than any other law man has ever come with. I would LOVE to debate with you in regards to this topic in particular.
Your point was to try to prove that Islam forces people to convert. Nothing from what you quoted says this.
So u have failed in attempting to prove ur main point.
@WaysOfMan
TWO
In … @WaysOfMan
TWO
In the hadith u have quoted, there are three conditions set to the people whom the armies were sent to. None of the three conditions were to force anyone to convert to Islam.
When the Muslim armies fought, they only fought the opposing army. They never killed any innocent people. When they won, they never forced anyone to convert to Islam.
They were however, brought under the Laws of God,which are the most Just laws known to mankind.
@WaysOfMan
You see … @WaysOfMan
You see, now ur dancing around the subject. Have u even read the hadith u are referencing? Did u see the conditions that must be put to the enemy?
All of God’s Prophets were Commanded to uphold God’s Laws. Muhammad (pbuh) was sent to manking, whereas all the other Messengers were sent to specific nations only.
It was his mission to bring the rule of God to mankind. There is NOTHING about “forced conversion”.
@hchsbp1
Research … @hchsbp1
Research the Spanish Inquisition
Christians did the same thing. They make war on those that are not Christian. They call it the “Holy Office of the Inquisition”. You call it “jihad”. In both cases the ‘enemy’ was doing nothing. See Sahih Muslim 19:4294 where the Imam is on an expedition and wants to know what to do when he meets other people.
@hchsbp1
1)So I … @hchsbp1
1)So I assume you’ve already researched the Jedid al Islam in Mashhad and the Orphan’s Decree?
2)”please do not attempt to quote passages from the Qur’an or ahadith that you have absolutely no understanding of”
That’s a typical Christian answer. Nice.
3)You are right about 2:193 I hadn’t meant to include that one.
9:5, 11 is referring to after the terms of a treaty has passed
9:29 is not talking about war at all nor is its context
4) Who is initiating that war in the Hadiths and why?
@WaysOfMan
TWO
2) … @WaysOfMan
TWO
2) The ahadith are to be taken in conjunction with the Qur’an. Tell me again, what does this have to do with “forced conversion”?? These verses and ahadith are talking about times of war.
It seems rather obvious that ur knowledge of Islam is dependent upon christian apologists. Far from historians, they are propagandists who seek to validate the false beliefs of Christianity by ATTEMPTING to point out faults in Islam.
@WaysOfMan
ONE
My … @WaysOfMan
ONE
My friend, please do not attempt to quote passages from the Qur’an or ahadith that you have absolutely no understanding of. Copying and pasting will only expose ur reliance upon ignorance.
1) Qur’an 2:193 – Does the passage start and stop there?? Try starting from verse 190 and work ur way down…
Qur’an 9:5 & 11, 29 – Once again, try starting from the beginning of the chapter and work ur way down.
Wikipedia lists … Wikipedia lists many sources for its information.
“Under the law, children of male citizens [in Saudi Arabia] are considered Muslim, regardless of the country or the religious tradition in which they have been raised.”
Also Alladhdad incident of Mashhad with the Jedid al Islam.
Or Orphan’s Decree of Yemen until 1948 of orphaned dhimmi
Non-Wikipedia Sources:
Qur’an 2:193, 9:5, 9:11, 9:29
Sahih Muslim 1:33, 19:4294
Bukhari 2:24, 8:387, 53:392, 59:643, 60:40
Ibn Ishaq 959
@WaysOfMan
I urge … @WaysOfMan
I urge you to use sources other than wikipedia. Here are a couple of books by reputable historians and scholars, regarding the spread of Islam (note that they are non-Muslims)
1- The History of Islam in Africa – Nehemia Levtzion
2- Islamic Revolution – Bernard Lewis
3- Islam – Brian Turner
4- Encyclopedia of the Qur’an Vol. 5 – Jane Dammen & Leisden McAuliffe
Read up on Islam by other reputable scholars:
1- Sir Thomas Arnold
2- Marshall G.S. Hodgens
3 – Karen Armstrong
judaism,Christianity or Islam by Sheikh Ahmed Deedat
@hchsbp1
Thanks.
@hchsbp1
Thanks.
@WaysOfMan
I will …
@WaysOfMan
I will answer these questions for you in the reply PM you sent me.
Peace
For some reason my …
For some reason my second comment is not posting here and I had some trouble getting my third up. You can see all four if you click on ’see all comments’. Sorry about the multiple postings.
@hchsbp1
4/4
“Why …
@hchsbp1
4/4
“Why does Shari’a law obligate Muslims to protect the rights of non-Muslims.?” You told me that no country practices Shari’a then how do they practice jihad? Are they misinterpreting the Qur’an? Do they than think that you are by not agreeing to them? Perhaps than the best thing to say is that Shari’a law is very good but Muslims are not? The devshirme in the Ottoman Empire and the dhimmi of Yemen did not feel this protection, yet both are definitely run by Muslims.
@hchsbp1
3/4
You …
@hchsbp1
3/4
You say that the objective of offensive jihad is to bring the nation under Shari’a. You also said that no nation today lives under Shari’a. Does that mean that the jihadists are misinterpreting the Qur’an? Do they think you are? You have to understand that for a dhimmi there is very little difference between being forced to live under Shari’a and forced to convert to Islam. Also the three options when meeting new nations are: convert, pay tax or die. Nothing there about Shari’a.
@hchsbp1
2/4
“with …
@hchsbp1
2/4
“with regards to…this was carried out in blatant defiance of the teachings of Islam”
Whether Islam teaches it is OK to forcefully convert someone or not, Muslims have commonly forced people to convert. Even Karen Armstrong whom you listed earlier says that during the time of Muhammad there were forced converts. In fact, if you look at the sheer numbers of forced conversions in the past 1000 years its possible that you are a descendant of one. Also thanks but I already have Torah.
@hchsbp1
.1/4
Yes, …
@hchsbp1
.1/4
Yes, I’m Jewish. So that would make us cousins not brother. I just want to add here that I am not anti-Muslim only anti-jihaddist the same as I am anti-Christian missionaries and not anti-Christian.
I’m not sure what you mean when you say that I need to “judge Muslims by Islam”. Does that mean that if a religion teaches peace but its people are not peaceful they should still be called peaceful? It is the people who make the religion by how they translate their books.
@WaysOfMan
FOUR
…
@WaysOfMan
FOUR
Think about this; if Islam instructed Muslims to force people into accepting Islam why does Sharia’a Law obligate Muslims to protect the rights of non-Muslims living in their lands?
@WaysOfMan
THREE
…
@WaysOfMan
THREE
As you can clearly see, forcing someone to convert is completely against the teachings of Islam. The objective of offensive Jihad is to only bring the nation under the Law’s of God. Not to force anyone to convert. This is because all man made laws are oppressive. Sharia’a law guarantees the rights of Muslims and non-Muslims.
I highly recommend that u study the Law’s of Sharia’a. Or if u have any questions regarding it, please feel free to ask.
@WaysOfMan
TWO
…
@WaysOfMan
TWO
With regards to Jadid al Islam and the Orphan’s decree in Yemen, this was carried out in blatant defiance of the teachings of Islam.
“There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become clear from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in falsehood and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower” {2:256}
Continued…
@WaysOfMan
ONE
…
@WaysOfMan
ONE
Brother, I know ur not sticking up for Christianity. I could tell from ur responses that u are probably a Jew or an Israelite (I do not intend this to be said in a disrespectful manner)
There is not a single country in the world that abides by the Sharia’a Law nor do they represent Islam. U have to judge Muslims by Islam, not the other way around.
We have to go to the teachings of the Prophet (pbuh) and the rightly guided Caliphs.
Continued…
@hchsbp1
How are …
@hchsbp1
How are you explaining the Jedid al Islam and the Orphan’s decree?
The three courses of action when meeting new people:
“Invite them to (accept) Islam”
“If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya.”
“If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them.”
@hchsbp1
(Sorry …
@hchsbp1
(Sorry couldn’t edit previous post so I had to add this here)
I am not trying to stick up for Christians. I think Christians are great at killing the disbelievers. All I am saying is that its not ONLY Christians who force conversions. There are documented cases throughout history of this as I mentioned earlier. Just as there is of the Christians. In this at least Islam is on par with Christians.
@WaysOfMan
THREE
…
@WaysOfMan
THREE
Sharia’a Law is better than any other law man has ever come with. I would LOVE to debate with you in regards to this topic in particular.
Your point was to try to prove that Islam forces people to convert. Nothing from what you quoted says this.
So u have failed in attempting to prove ur main point.
@WaysOfMan
TWO
In …
@WaysOfMan
TWO
In the hadith u have quoted, there are three conditions set to the people whom the armies were sent to. None of the three conditions were to force anyone to convert to Islam.
When the Muslim armies fought, they only fought the opposing army. They never killed any innocent people. When they won, they never forced anyone to convert to Islam.
They were however, brought under the Laws of God,which are the most Just laws known to mankind.
Continued…
@WaysOfMan
You see …
@WaysOfMan
You see, now ur dancing around the subject. Have u even read the hadith u are referencing? Did u see the conditions that must be put to the enemy?
All of God’s Prophets were Commanded to uphold God’s Laws. Muhammad (pbuh) was sent to manking, whereas all the other Messengers were sent to specific nations only.
It was his mission to bring the rule of God to mankind. There is NOTHING about “forced conversion”.
Continued…
@hchsbp1
Research …
@hchsbp1
Research the Spanish Inquisition
Christians did the same thing. They make war on those that are not Christian. They call it the “Holy Office of the Inquisition”. You call it “jihad”. In both cases the ‘enemy’ was doing nothing. See Sahih Muslim 19:4294 where the Imam is on an expedition and wants to know what to do when he meets other people.
@hchsbp1
1)So I …
@hchsbp1
1)So I assume you’ve already researched the Jedid al Islam in Mashhad and the Orphan’s Decree?
2)”please do not attempt to quote passages from the Qur’an or ahadith that you have absolutely no understanding of”
That’s a typical Christian answer. Nice.
3)You are right about 2:193 I hadn’t meant to include that one.
9:5, 11 is referring to after the terms of a treaty has passed
9:29 is not talking about war at all nor is its context
4) Who is initiating that war in the Hadiths and why?
@WaysOfMan
TWO
2) …
@WaysOfMan
TWO
2) The ahadith are to be taken in conjunction with the Qur’an. Tell me again, what does this have to do with “forced conversion”?? These verses and ahadith are talking about times of war.
It seems rather obvious that ur knowledge of Islam is dependent upon christian apologists. Far from historians, they are propagandists who seek to validate the false beliefs of Christianity by ATTEMPTING to point out faults in Islam.
@WaysOfMan
ONE
My …
@WaysOfMan
ONE
My friend, please do not attempt to quote passages from the Qur’an or ahadith that you have absolutely no understanding of. Copying and pasting will only expose ur reliance upon ignorance.
1) Qur’an 2:193 – Does the passage start and stop there?? Try starting from verse 190 and work ur way down…
Qur’an 9:5 & 11, 29 – Once again, try starting from the beginning of the chapter and work ur way down.
Continued…
Wikipedia lists …
Wikipedia lists many sources for its information.
“Under the law, children of male citizens [in Saudi Arabia] are considered Muslim, regardless of the country or the religious tradition in which they have been raised.”
Also Alladhdad incident of Mashhad with the Jedid al Islam.
Or Orphan’s Decree of Yemen until 1948 of orphaned dhimmi
Non-Wikipedia Sources:
Qur’an 2:193, 9:5, 9:11, 9:29
Sahih Muslim 1:33, 19:4294
Bukhari 2:24, 8:387, 53:392, 59:643, 60:40
Ibn Ishaq 959
@WaysOfMan
I urge …
@WaysOfMan
I urge you to use sources other than wikipedia. Here are a couple of books by reputable historians and scholars, regarding the spread of Islam (note that they are non-Muslims)
1- The History of Islam in Africa – Nehemia Levtzion
2- Islamic Revolution – Bernard Lewis
3- Islam – Brian Turner
4- Encyclopedia of the Qur’an Vol. 5 – Jane Dammen & Leisden McAuliffe
Read up on Islam by other reputable scholars:
1- Sir Thomas Arnold
2- Marshall G.S. Hodgens
3 – Karen Armstrong
Peace